ProNurse

Recent research from the Journal of Advanced Nursing claims that student nurses should give up smoking as part of their training, mainly because of the negative effect has on the general public when they see healthcare workers smoking.

It sounds sensible medical advice but is it an infringement on human rights and what would be next? Obesity? Drinking? Wearing high heels?

What do you think?

 Im really quite angry about this!!!!!!!!!! talk about a nanny state, he bankers screw the country and nurses arent allowed to smoke!!!! so very, very wrong...

I can see why people will consider that their rights are being unfairly removed here but I think that we should be promoting good health as well as picking up the pieces from poor health.

I think there should be a minimum fitness test to join and there should be regular fitness tests like the Armed Forces have. Some of the nurses I work with couldn't run 100 metres if their (or their patient's life) depended on it.

Face facts. We have a stressful job and a lot of it is spent on our feet. We need to be fit to do it and the public need to see us as an example.

i am a smoker so it would personally give me that boost to give up, cos r we ever really READY to give up??? promoting health yeah but its my body ,my choice these are my rights are they not???? mmmmm if i really think about it .........................i want a fag right now and if some one came along and took my fags told me i wasnt allowed to smoke ill turn in to the hulk hahahaha
it should be our choice its our rights!!!!!!

 No I don't smoke foxycaity as I've always been interested in looking after my health - it's why I became a nurse in the first place to help others. I'm not a 'gym bunny' I don't like the gym actually. I prefer to be active in my spare time rather than spending time just exercising but that works for me it probably won't work for you.

How long have you smoked for? Why did you start in the first place?

i am a very heavy smoker, i have tried in the past to give up but to no avail.  i am 57 with copd and still work full time on a rehab ward, i am  quicker than some of the younger members of staff who are about 39 years younger than me, so i dont think being a smoker slows you down( if you havent got copd ) , you either work or you dont, ,when things on the ward become stressful a ciggie when on break can be calming , when you  go back its all smiles again, although i try to deter any youngsters from smoking and relate to my  complaint it is freedom of choice . this last week i have been struggling with my chest and finding it more difficult to breathe so as  i speak i have actually got a patch on which i have had on  since 1pm so if you are a smoker , yes its your choice but dont end up like me if you can give it up , its a killer :) xxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for your honest response Marlene.

Stuart - it is all theory isn't because a non-smoking ban would not be enforceable anyway. It is good to have the discussion though.

I've just sent in an article to Russ here at ProNurse to try and explain more fully what I mean. I am expecting a robust response from you!

Should nurses be banned from smoking to help promote anti-smoking campaigns

Thanks Foxycaity - see my comments on the article or I'll end up repeating things

Yes it works!

Hi Pelagia,

You suggested you'd get a robust response from me. However I don't think one is warranted.

 

Unlike in this thread where we disagreed around basic civil liberties issues you do not appear to be recommending any compulsory change. You are advocating for healthy living and listing some advantages.

Personally I think there's far too much special pleading in your article - nurses aren't particularly special and we don't get any harder a time of things than people in many other jobs. Also the stuff on pics on facebook etc aren't unique to nurses.

I don't disagree however with your basic arguments - although I do choose to disregard them in my own life - along with many other people - and I have that right.

I also think your comparison with the armed forces can only go so far. TYhe stuff about followijng orders left me wondering whether this was illustrative or whether you actually think this would be positive.

If you recommend this as an approach for nurses (a completely different structure and philosophy from the services) then I suggest you review the system relating to autonomy, accountability and duty of care. We have no Nuremberg defence as qualified professionals and so it is often necessary to disregard the instructions of others, however senior they may be.

Basically though I have no issue with anyone expressing a sincerely meant opinion. I think your thinking is a tad superficial and, as I said, I dislike special pleading but you're not proposing removing anyone's civil liberties and freedom to choose so hey - vive la difference!

And once again - welcome to pronurse.

Cheers,

Stuart

Occy health monitored weight?

What on earth did they do with the information? I can't see any employer sacking a nurse for obesity and getting away with it. I imagine there might be recommendations in relation to backs and work-related injury insurance as you say but that's probably it.

After all - there's no legal right to force a nurse to lose weight and they can't be sacked so long as they perform to acceptable practice standards so what was the point?

And just how long have you been nursing? I can't remember any of that and Im not exactly new to this whole nursing lark myself.

Cheers,

Stuart

MrSmirnoff says ...

The only current forces that interfere with human rights seem to be those which are religious based. For some reason they are able to plead for exemptions to the law and are granted it. Now some religions are in certain areas demanding everyone must conform to their ethical and moral codes too. To rule the way we are brought up, educated and live our life. I can if required present evidence of that if requested.

It isn’t like they pushing forward a secular issue like the smoking issue here, but if anti smoking pressure groups gain a foothold to enforce their beliefs on others, well it will be a bit like the Italian Job when Michael Caine says, ‘you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off’. All sorts of crazy and inhuman laws might be allowed by the precedent.   

 

 

You're asking me to think back almost 20 years now I'm afraid. I do remember having a medical so I assume that I would have been weighed as part of the process but the significance of that, if there was a monitoring programme, was never made clear. I know that there were a couple of extremely large students on my course and so far as I know nobody was bothered about that.

Mind you, they wouldn't necessarily have told the rest of us if they were being monitored because of their weight.

Cheers,

Stuart

Marjorie says ...

 

People have to want to  give  up / change their lifestyle and trying to force them will only make them go undercover and cause fire risks for example  if they are have a crafty fag in the linen cuboard

Absolutely Marjorie.

We know from history that prohibition doesn't work well even when it's complete. A partial prohibition that applies only to one subsection of society (in this case nurses) is even less effective unless it's accompanied by tough draconian legislation and enforced with extreme measures.

Someone said earlier 'yes, it works'.

I beg to differ. The evidence is that it does not work. Look at the historical prohibition of alcohol in America, prohibition of alcohol in the Australian colonies, prohibition of illicit substances in our own society today where people will endure extreme sanctions and still remain using their substance of choice.

So I wonder what sanctions would be employed to enforce such a ban (were it a real issue and not a rather ill-considered magazine article). Would we be dismissed for smoking? If so what effect would that have on the workforce in UK? What would be the cost to the NHS in induistrial tribunals, not to mention the use of agency staff and recruitment campaigns?

There are many other questions raised by this proposition - not least the question of evidence. How do we know that non-smoking nurses would be more effective at preventing a legally accepted and culturally widespread addictive behaviour?

My own experience is that many smokers have accepted health advice from me on this issue precisely because I am a smoker, can refer to my own experience of the downfalls but also acknowledge the good whilst I talk sincerely and realistically with them about the disadvantages of the weed. I have a great deal more credibility on this issue than a nurse who has never smoked might have because I'm seen as one who understands.

We also need to get over ourselves. The majority of people in our society are happy to call us 'angels' (in that patronising and annoyingly unrealistic way they do) but they don't give two hoots about our opinions if it means changing something they enjoy. Come on folks - who put us in charge? Wjho do we think wil care about our opinions and behaviours anyway. Nurses aren't special and we do not warrant special prohibition simply because somebody thinks it's ok to ride roughshod over our rights in an ill-conceived article making didgy assumptions about the effect of prohibition.

Cheers,

Stuart