ProNurse

Can someone please help me I am at the end of my tether ? I won't go into details but I have been pushed to the point at work where I feel I have no option but to leave.My situation is untenable despite having the full support and witness statements of my team.HR have advised a grievance even though I will be leaving , the RCN with very little knowledge about the situattion have advised against a grievance as it is so stressful and I am leaving anyway.But I am being forced to leave a job a love , with people I enjoy working with to do something else that is not my passion. They have mentioned constructive dismissal.I don't know anything about this sort of thing and am out of my depth.Maybe if I am leaving I should just forget about it but I think the bullies should get justice if only to improve their behaviour going forward.Any opinions welcome please I am drowning in this and it is making me ill !

Thanks I appreciate your input.I haven't given notice yet but I can't take anymore I don't feel I can saty any longer I am at my wits end ! I am popular and well thought of by all the staff bar the two exceptions that are doing this and I don't know why they are ! I would love for them to just say yes they have been out of order sorry and put it right , I have no desire to mess with people's careers.But how can the RCN advise me not to bother just on the back of it being stressful ? They don't even know what has happened and some of it unlawful ! I really don't know what to do.I am a strong person usually but this has diminished me.

I contacted ACAS I believe you do have to resign for construstive dismissal and you should go through the grievance process first or if you lose you will be liable for costs ! Fantastic advice from the RCN there then ! They have advised a grievance.I don't think it will help me but hopefully it will stop this happening to others.It is so injust the way bullies seem to always win ! What do I say to my children about bullies after this ? Sometimes it seems only the decent people get the grief !

I am a registered nurse. I recently went through what you are going through. It's been a long hard slog to get recognition for work place bullying but with the help of a great RCN rep it's nearly done. I was bullied by a notorious senior Sister and I ended up having to move from the job I loved to another department. The Trust continued to harass me and the result of the initial investigation was so one sided it had to be seen to be believed, the focus of the investigation had been shifted to me to protect her I assume. I, as you must do, followed the correct stages of the grievance procedure but I ended up being victimised and conctantly scrutinised to such a point whereby I had to take long term sick leave because I felt working under those conditions caused too much stress to be fit to practice. My practice was constantly under close scrutiny even to the point when a senior nursing staff member of the trust emailed my new manager asking for any evidence of mal practice by me. Fortunately I am safe in practice and thorough and I was supported totally by my new manager. All this and it was ME that put in the initial grievance.

As always in life though the truth always comes out and the RCN are fully supporting me towards constructive dismissal as I have now resigned due to the pressure. There is no place in nursing or any other profession for bullying and unfortunately the NHS, nursing in particular, is a breeding ground for bullies and bullying.

Be strong, follow policy and procedure and do not give in.

Thankyou for all your replies.The situation got worse yesterday and I am going to resign I am becoming ill with it .I never thought I was the sort of person who would go through something like this, I don't know who I thought was , but I am popular , hard working , capable and strong so I thought anyway.But clearly I am naive it can happen to anyone ! I cannot believe people's lack of integrity , faced with people that have no boundaries you simply cannot win.So although I am certain I am in the right they will get away with it my health can't take this anymore.

Anonymous says ...

It always is the nurse who is strong, popular, outgoing and with new ideas who is on the recieving end of bullying. It upsets the comfort zone of others. I have noticed that nurses, especially band 6 and 7s close ranks to the point of lying through their teeth to protect themselves. It's sad but true. And the more lowley band 5s will just keep their mouth shut and pretend nothing happened, or they didn't see anything, to protect themselves and their comfort zone. It's such a pity because nurses are supposed to be altruistic and have integrity, but in my broad experience as a registered nurse this is so far from the truth. I'm not sure why this is, but it is so. This is maybe why the NHS and nurses end up with such bad press. Patient's and relatives are on the recieving end of these nurses as well as their colleagues. Maybe as a profession we attract the wrong types, bullies, the power mad or simply because it was expected of the person to become a nurse for whatever reason.

When I went through what you are going through I was simply amazed at the lies that were told by nurses in senior positions to protect their peers and themselves. I was also ashamed of my profession because of it. But I, like you, are not there for them, we are there to help the sick and needy, thus I will continue to be a nurse and lead by example, not by the need for power, bullying or comfort zones.

STICK WITH IT

Doctors on the other hand will stick together no matter what, strange but true.................

I have to say you have hit the nail on the head entirely ! All of this could apply to my situation ! Luckily other professions have witnessed it and are more prepared to step forward, nurses are more fearful.I keep expecting them to realise and behave more reasonably but as I have discovered just because you have integrity and behave in a reasonable manner you cannot expect that of others.Don't judge by your own values.It makes you cynical and paranoid , I don't recognise myself anymore !

I resigned when I couldn't take anymore.. went off sick to cover my notice because by that stage I felt the stress I was under was showing in my interactions with staff and patients and that was not me.

When I sought legal advice they confirmed constructive dismisal and I felt relief but then he asked me a list of questions, did you put in a grievence? did you write anything down on paper to your manager or HR to say you were unhappy? Did you state in your resignation why you had left?

Thing is.. I didn't want to cause anymore grief for myself and so the answer to all the above was no which unfortunatly meant no evidence and no case.

Write the grievence and if you resign state why your unhappy and why you feel you have to leave.. I wish I had. My life has fallen apart since and I have no way to fight back.

In most cases of bullying, this is the scenario:

1. The bully does it to others because he/she is unable to cope with pressure. They are often of low intelligence, and this leads to insecurity which is expressed by bullying others. 

2. The bully has done it for a long time, to numerous other people, doesn't know any other behaviour, and this is 'ingrained' into their personality.

3. The management infrastructure is institutionally unable/unwilling to address the issue as they are afraid of the legal/public relations effects, so they 'bury their heads in the sand' and hope the problem will 'just go away'...

4. In most cases, the situation is "resolved" by the victim leaving the workplace where the bullying occurs and the bully is left there to select their next victim and the depressing cycle continues... (Obviously, this isn't a 'resolution' to the problem, as bullying will continue in that area).

5. Victims of bullying often end up with physical and/or medical, as well as long-term psychological problems as a a result of bullying - and workplace sickness rates increase.

6. General workplace morale is lowered, and with that, productivity, (for want of a better word...)

7. Bullies are often cunning, manipulative, and are effective liars. They are good at 'covering their own backs' and shifting blame for problems towards other innocent people.

8 Bullies are cowards and will pick on those whom they see as weak, easy targets. (This is not a slur on your own personality - it is how the bully sees you! Do you get my drift?)

9. Bullies, if challenged, often try to 'turn the tables' and claim that it is they who are the victims of bullying.

Do the above points sound familiar? They ALL applied in my case in the area where I was a victim of bullying. I once turned around and took the bully into a room for a 'chat'. I told her how her actions made me feel. I explained that there was NO excuses or a defence for her deplorable actions and that I would not tolerate her bullying, threats or intimidation any more, from that day on. I told her that she could 'complain' about me to management if she wished, but I was past caring. I told her her that she was the one with the problem, that many other felt the same but were afraid to say it and it was high time she took a long hard look at herself, and her attitude to others. The result of my conversation? She 'turned on the tears' and even tried to claim that I had "threatened" her with physical harm. (This is a prime example of point number 7 in the list above). What she didn't know was that I had a witness listening to my conversation with her, discreetly, from another room. That person confirmed that I had spoken to her calmly, professionally and factually, making no 'threats' whatsoever. (A devious plan, I agree - secreting an observer in the next room, but I felt I ha d to 'cover my back', and I can be as cunning as her...). This worked for a while, but the bully gradually slipped back into her 'old ways', and started on at me again. (See 'point 2' in the list above).

I don't know what my point is in all of this, but if you read this and think: "My goodness! That's what happened (or worse, is happening), to me", then you'll get the impression that you're not alone, it happens to (many) others, things WILL get better, and it isn't YOU that has the problem - it's them. And you are a better human being than them. It's easy for me to say, but I have been there, done it and got the T-shirt. Now it's behind me. Soon it will be a distant memory for you and you will be happier at work and in yourself. YOU will a confident, happy person, in control of yourself and your emotions! Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it is that you can either run from it, or learn from it. A good person learns more from their mistakes, than from their successes.

Remember: Just because someone says you can't do something, doesn't mean you have to listen!

Stay strong.

S.

 hi... I am looking at doing my access to nursing course at college this September and then on to Uni. I have just read the above posts and I am shocked to say the least. Do male nurses get a raw deal from certain senior nurses, because your a man ? I know its difficult for anyone that's on the receiving end when a bully singles you out for whatever reason. I have just come out of the mining industry and I have never ever tolerated bullying, I think I would also move on to pastures new but I would make it known why I am moving on. Surely the bosses who run the wards can work out that a ward is going through staff like water, there's got to be a problem, it aint rocket science. It sickens me to think that some of you have to go through this after all the hard work you have put into your careers... its not right. Have you not got anyone to confide in, like a mediator that can at least talk to the bully to see what their problem is with you ??

I can only add my sympathy to everyone, its hell going through this. I too have been a victim of bullying, in fact it was so bad 12 of us left this particular unit. i went home every night in tears, hating the job, very very unhappy. bullied because i was from a different area of england, discriminated against because i didn't have children, yes seriously. and to top it all when at least 5 of us finally managed to get out and try to get other jobs, it was a nightmare, strange how none of us could get even an interview despite being very well qualified for the jobs. yes you guessed it the bully was the senior nurse manager.

But i just want to say one thing - the comment about band 6 and 7 nurses all sticking together - WRONG OK. i have been a nurse for 20 years, i've been a band 7 for 5 and i've had 3 of the worst experiences of bullying since i started this post - all from the clinical unit manager. so don't assume its all about newly qualified and band 5 nurses, you're very very wrong.

bullies are cowards, its their problem, this is all about their sad little worlds and insecurities. they are everywhere but fortunately they are in a minority and remember what goes around comes around. one day.

I understand completely where you are at.

Background

7 years ago I was investigated for a number of complaints, which were taken out of proportion, and were not propoerly investigated.

In Complaints my then line manager put forward the best case she could. I will call my line manager betty (not real name).

They held a meeting without me, after my Rcn rep got the date mixed up and informed me at short notice that she could not come.

At the time a close relative was very ill with breast cancer, and that did not stop Betty giving me a final written warning.

All that happened 7 years ago - the result of all the stress Betty gave me cannot be underestimated.

Betty went higher, and I had another line manager who I shall call Tom. I slogged along.

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I became a Unison rep, and assisted other members fight cases.

I noticed that Health & Safety was being ignored by management, and I tried to speak up.

I put in a number of grievances over the years.

Tom told me that Betty was after me in 2009 and 2010.

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The close relative developed secondaries.

I had some complaints that were taken out of context. Tom investigated me and told me that he would be hard on the day, but was soft underneath and I would get training.

The Unison full-time representative, whom I shall Gordon was useless, and he just told me that I should apologise, even though I wasn't guilty.

He tried to reason with betty, and even tried to get her to demote me.

Tom wrote down that I should get training in his investigation typing booklet.

Betty heard the disciplinary on the friday, and said that she could not believe that I had not had a complaint in the last 7 years!

Absolute prejudice!

As the hearing ended, Tom came out and talked to Gordon, they were both relaxed.

Then Gordon talked to me, and told me that I deserved this, as Betty had told him things about me (which weren't true, but he had been conniving with management I realised.

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I turned off my mobile phone, and on the following monday was called at 10am into Tom's office and shown an email from Betty - stating "Resign with a good reference or be dismissed!"

Then I was told I was suspended.

I contacted nhs.org/">Nurse Suspension.

Tom told me to clear my desk, which I did and left the building. Only to be called back by him to give in my diary, laptop and mobile phone, and be thrown out of the clinic.

On the friday I received a letter from Betty informing me that she had summarily dismissed me.

I later asked Tom for the copy of the email saying resign or be dismissed, and he said that it didn't exist.

Under the Data Access Act I later got hold of the email under subjective access.

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Four months later I had my internal appeal (not supported by the union because by then I had a No Win No Fee lawyer).

They offered to reinstate me and give me four months back pay on my salary, but they wanted to demote me by two bands, and give me £10,000 less.

On paper the charges against me do not add up to dismissal, disciplinary action or even demotion - they just equal bullying.

It is now going to the Employment Tribunal